Interview - Volodymyr

[dennisgorelik]

Couple of days ago I interviewed Volodimir from Ukraine.
Volodymyr promised to work 6 days per week 14 hour per day for about $1500/mo.
His expertise is in writing "data processing" code.

I asked Volodymyr to give me examples of input and output of his processes.
Volodimir said that the input could be anything.
I asked him to be more specific, so I could understand.
Volodimir kept insisting that it could be any data.
I asked what kind of business problem does that process solve.
Volodimir kept insisting that it does not matter.
Eventually we both gave up in frustration.
I wrote to Volodymyr "your skills probably would not work out for working with me -- I simply would not be able to communicate with you clearly".
Volodymyr replied:

Dennis,
Look
This is a content of one column of one row of more than 1000000 rows which I use as input data : "2025050201401014016060 6090305025050201401014016060609030507014010901303016014".
If this is interested for You - try to understand what is this.
Your knowleges in programming is so low.
At first, You need to understand what is a main tasks of programming.
At second, You need to choose a tasks which You will solve and decide for why You need it.
You absolutely not understanding bases of programming.
When You will have enough skills in programming You will stop ask "an examples of data you are working".
I think - speaking skills of Russian, English or other languages for speaking about nothing - is just spent time. 
I`m usually very busy. 
And don`t want spent time.All Your conclusions is - big mistake.
I don`t want spent time for nothing.

Sigh.

Comments

[juan_gandhi]

Too many crazy people in this world.

[dennisgorelik]

Crazy people are much more likely to be jobless (and therefore looking for a job).
So searching for a hire is an extreme experience.

[proben]

Ну, судя по тому как много человек готов работать и какую просит за это компенсацию, это уровень продвинутого джуниора. Сейчас, за эти деньги в Украине уже мидлы работать не будут 8 часов в день (crazy I know, but this is current state on it labor market in Ukraine).

[outputlogic]

Согласен. Я много работаю с украинскими разработчиками - фрилансерами и небольшими аутсорсинговыми компаниями. Фрилансеров неплохо искать на Upwork, и смотреть на историю проектов и рейтинг.

[dennisgorelik]

I'm actually looking for a full-time person, not just for a short-time projects.
Do you think Upwork would still be good for that?

[outputlogic]

I usually create a small job to test professional and communication skills. And then decide how to continue working with that person and what to offer.

[dennisgorelik]

What do you mean under "a small job to test"?
In particular, how long does it usually take to finish your "small job to test"?

Do you have interview and discuss potential compensation before or after giving such test?

[dennisgorelik]

1) Volodymyr is probably outside of junior-senior classification.
He is probably has a lot of programming experience, but he did not learn the most important things from that experience.
2) I think $1500/mo is a pretty good salary in Ukraine. Upper-middle class I'd say.
(Ukraine's GDP per capita is $2826/year).
On the other hand, if developer speaks English and is able to market himself on Internet - then yes - he can make more than that.

[proben]

Рынок есть рынок, средний уровень зп в стране не имеет отношения к уровню зарплаты конкретной специальности. На сегодня, средняя зарплата сеньоров девов в курпных конторах в районе трех тысяч плюс зеленых в месяц при налогах меньше десяти процентов. Английский нужен, но продавать себя им незачем - достаточно намекнуть, что готов рассмотреть предложения о найме :)

Разумеется, человек, который не умеет корректно общаться, никому не нужен, будь он трижды специалист. В принципе, я могу понять, если он хочет набрать клиентскую базу и поэтому пока готов работать за полцены.

[dennisgorelik]

> Рынок есть рынок, средний уровень зп в стране не имеет отношения к уровню зарплаты конкретной специальности.

Рынок, как раз, подразумевает, что средний уровень зарплат влияет на зарплаты в конкретной специальности.
Хотя корреляция далеко не стопроцентная.

> средняя зарплата сеньоров девов в курпных конторах в районе трех тысяч

Thank you - that is a good data point.
But I think that is 90th percentile for Ukrainian developers (and ~97th percentile for Ukrainians in general).

These 90th percentile developers are: smart, hardworking, experienced, decent communicators and do not mind going to the office every day.

I am considering hiring a junior (still smart and hardworking though) - so in ~3 years he would grow into a senior or even a team lead.
But may be I am wrong and it is better to hire a senior. Not sure.

[kr]

If you interested about salary:
https://jobs.dou.ua/salaries/

These 90th percentile developers are: smart, hardworking, experienced, decent communicators and do not mind going to the office every day.

Last "skill" - not a big deal, btw.

[kr]

There is important thing about salary and difference between remote and office work.

Guys who sit in office eight hours per day - usually work about 50% of this time. 60-70%, may be, if they good.

They drink coffee, smoke and talk, read emails, surf web, and made some other stuff, which hard to call "work".

So, remote guys need to get more paid in recalculation per hour - otherwise they will get less payment for same job, than office guys.

Which means if somebody wanna hire remote specialist, then may be salary of guy from office, with same qualification - can be not a such good point.

[dennisgorelik]

Remote workers also drink coffee, smoke, talk, read emails, surf web and make some other stuff.
Coding itself - is relatively small part of software development work, no matter whether it happens in remote or office settings.

On the other hand, remote workers do not have to commute to the office, so it saves them about 1 hour of time every day.

[dennisgorelik]

> https://jobs.dou.ua/salaries/

Thanks - that is an informative resource.
It may be interesting to setup similar salaries poll among postjobfree.com candidates...

Ukr IT

[yuras68]

1) He is young and stupid, pardon my French. He does not know how to market himself even he might know something about data processing.
2) $1.5K/mon is not that high for an IT person in Ukraine. Don't forget that IT is the best paying occupation in Ukraine as of now. Especially for a promised 14-hr work day. That was another thing that supported my (1) response. Normal people do not work that much on a regular basis.

Re: Ukr IT

[dennisgorelik]

He's not that young: 34 y.o.

[yostrov]

Либо гений, либо идиот.

[dennisgorelik]

У гениев, обычно, ясность мысли.
Во всяком случае у тех, которые представляют ценность для меня.

[kr]

Либо гений...

это вряд ли.


...
– Что вы делаете так поздно? – спросил Резерфорд.
– Работаю.
– А что вы делаете днем?
– Работаю, разумеется, – отвечал ученик.
– И рано утром тоже работаете?
– Да, профессор, и утром работаю.
Резерфорд помрачнел и раздраженно спросил:
– Послушайте, а когда же вы думаете?

[yostrov]

Лично я думаю когда работаю.

[lodin]

People keep confusing critique and insults...

[dennisgorelik]

True.
That's why recruiters do NOT like to provide negative feedback.
I give it anyway, because it gives candidate a chance to explain themselves, and reduces the chances of me making a mistake (such as rejecting a potentially good candidate).