Dreamwidth activism

Dreamwidth decided to censor other websites (that have nothing to do with Dreamwidth).

https://dw-maintenance.dreamwidth.org/88458.html
We've been discussing migrating away from Cloudflare recently due to their refusal to deny services to sites that endanger people's offline security and incite and target people for offline harassment and physical violence.

I still cannot figure out why Dreamwidth decided to do something that is not their business:

https://dw-maintenance.dreamwidth.org/88458.html?thread=3924874#cmt3924874
dennisgorelik 2022-09-02 03:23
Do you now consider censorship of other websites - DreamWidth business?

[staff profile] denise 2022-09-02 05:15
Please read the other comments to this post. I've answered this and similar questions at great length.

(screened comment) Why censor other websites?
dennisgorelik 2022-09-02 08:23
I see barely relevant "censorship" discussion here:
https://dw-maintenance.dreamwidth.org/88458.html?thread=3849866#cmt3849866
https://dw-maintenance.dreamwidth.org/88458.html?thread=3874698#cmt3874698

But my point is different. You are trying to censor the content that DreamWidth does not host. How is that DreamWidth business?

(screened comment) Re: Why censor other websites?
[staff profile] denise 2022-09-02 22:25
For approximately the thousandth time: We are declining to do business with a company that we believe is behaving irresponsibly and refusing to enforce their own acceptable use policy to remove illegal content from their network. If you believe we should be forced to continue doing business with a company we don't want to do business with, you are welcome to hold that belief, but it is not our problem and we will not continue to do business with a company we don't want to do business with because you think our reasons for it aren't good enough.

(screened comment) Re: Why censor other websites?
dennisgorelik 2022-09-02 23:11
You are answering questions I did not ask, but do not answer the question I ask.
My question is: why do you think that censoring other websites is Dreamwidth business?
DreamWidth is not the government.
DreamWidth is not responsible for what is hosted on other websites.
Does DreamWidth contract with Cloudflare promise to DreamWidth that Cloudflare will censor other websites?

(screened comment) Re: Why censor other websites?
[staff profile] denise 2022-09-03 02:53 (UTC)
If you find out your grocery store is running a child rape ring in its warehouse after all the customers go home and the government is doing nothing to stop them, are you going to argue that people should be forced to keep shopping there instead of switching to a different grocery store?

Because that's what we're talking about here. We aren't going to keep doing business with a company that says they regret denying service to a site with widespread trading of child sexual abuse material. We aren't going to keep doing business with a company that refuses to deny service to a site that regularly tries to have people killed by the police. If they want to continue providing services to those websites, they can go right ahead, but actions have consequences and one of those consequences for Cloudflare is "it turns out a lot of people don't want their money to go to a company that enables people to trade recordings of children being raped".

You and many others appear to believe that once we choose a company to do business with, we should be forced to keep doing business with them no matter what. We reject that totalitarian premise. We can pick who we do business with. We don't want to do business with people who do business with child rapists and attempted murderers. We are allowed to make that decision.

I am done arguing about this. If you feel that this decision is incompatible with your values, I wish you luck in finding a site that fits your values more closely, precisely as we have done here.

(screened comment) Re: Why censor other websites?
dennisgorelik 2022-09-03 04:56 (UTC)
> If you find out your grocery store is running a child rape ring in its warehouse after all the customers go home and the government is doing nothing to stop them, are you going to argue that people should be forced to keep shopping there instead of switching to a different grocery store?

No.
I do not think that customers should be forced to keep shopping in any specific grocery store [whether there is any alleged crime there or not].

> Because that's what we're talking about here.

Do you mean that child rape happens on some of the websites that Cloudflare serves? (Similar to your "grocery story" hypothetical example).
Do you mean that the US government is aware, but does not prosecute child rape in these cases?

> We aren't going to keep doing business with a company that says they regret denying service to a site with widespread trading of child sexual abuse material. We aren't going to keep doing business with a company that refuses to deny service to a site that regularly tries to have people killed by the police.

Do you have a link to the story of "a site that regularly tries to have people killed by the police"?
Without details it is hard to understand what is your concern here.

> You and many others appear to believe that once we choose a company to do business with, we should be forced to keep doing business with them no matter what.

How did you come up to the conclusion that I, ostensibly, think that Dreamwidth should be forced to keep doing business with a specific company?
I never wrote anything like that. I never thought anything like that.

> We can pick who we do business with.

Yes, of course.

> We are allowed to make that decision.

Yes.
My point is that you are making a mistake by putting your political agenda ahead of Dreamwidth business interests.

Instead of focusing on improving site stability and convenience, you sacrifice Dreamwidth website stability in order to accomplish your political goals.